Rumors, reports, fun stuff like that....

[tbch13]

I completely agree that we shouldnt go against each other...but for people that have no connection to the Clarkson alumni and players might like to know what is going on. As long as it is respectful.
Goldie, I agree with you that players parents might be reading these, and I know that they are...however, from some of them that I spoke with on the weekend, are quite angry...and I dont believe that postings could affect them at all. Plus this roundtable and the ones before it were all for "informative" reasons to have them set up.

OKAY....that being said....:rolleyes:
There are a lot of issues at hand at Clarkson right now. The major one being the coaching staff vs. players. I saw things on saturday during practice from the stands that I was not impressed about. A blatant act which deserves punishment. I was extremely upset at the display as was my son that had accompanied me to this weekend's games. I know that there are always two sides of the story, but by speaking to players, parents, boosters and some administrative people, I have been informed that there are going to be some major changes with Clarkson' program. I dont believe that anything is certain yet, but I just hope that the integrity and strength of the program stays intact. Also, I hope that the good players that we have this year still get to continue their season with as little conflict as possible. Eventually this is all going to get out in the media, but I think that this being an "information" site and discussion site, I dont believe that there is any reason why people cant discuss their feelings and emotions about what they may or may not know.

Also, the reason that the captains had to sit out was because they were not "informed" by the coaches that there was in fact a morning practice. From what I was told, the coaches must have told a couple of people by word of mouth instead of posting it in the dressing room. Anyways that is over now...you cant take it back. And both the 6 players and the coaching staff is to be blamed. The players for not checking to make sure since their early morning was cancelled on the monday and the coaches for not communicating with their captains/players.

I know that many of you might now know some of the problems occurring around CU last week and today, but for those of you who dont, hopefully this link will provide a way for people to find out. Because I know for being around for that long, that you care about the program and what is happening around there.

I hope that this is resolved soon, so that it doesnt jepordize the rest of the season. This team has some great players from the looks of it, and I hope that they have a chance to put stuff behind them and look forward to the next 5 months. Good luck this weekend knights, pull together and beat RPI and Union...LGT

[JustMyOpinion]

I may not have all the info, but how do 6 players out of an entire team not know there is practice?

And yes, I do understand that this is just a small part of a larger problem. I hope that they did not choose to miss practice in order to take a stand against the coaching staff. If that was the case, it was the wrong thing to do.

And I hope that the coaching staff, having lost the confidence of the players, did not punish misinformed players to show their authority.

In no way am I siding with the players or the coaches until I understand this thing a little better. We should all hold judgement. In the big picture, it really doesn't matter if we understand it. This situation needs to be corrected so that these young genltemen can get back to being hockey players.

Change is good.

[tbch13]

You bring up a good point "Just my opinion"....
however, I might be wrong but from my understanding, what happened is that some of the team works out in the morning alternate days or something. And the other half is in the afternoon. So basically there are 4 groups of 7 or something. And it wasnt a practice it was in the gym. HOWEVER, the point of the matter is that 6 players were not informed of the change of dates and they had to sit out for one period.
I am not siding with one or the other, but I am dissapointed in both. I care about the future of the program like most of us do, and hope that the matter can be taken care of amicably soon.:)

[JustMyOpinion]

Thank you "tbch13", that was very helpful. It makes much better sense now that you have straightened me out.

I am sorry that you and your son were so unfortunate to see that incident.

I also have a better understanding why, as I mentioned before, that some of the players seemed to be in a mental funk at the SLU game.

I believe everthing will be settled soon, and for the better.

Good Luck to the Golden Knights this weekend. I can see the boys playing with a ton of rejuvenated enthusiasm.

It will be a "game" once again.

[Goldie Knight]

Tuesday, November 5, 2002 8:55 AM

TBCH13,

I certainly need to clarify my earlier post. I was alluding to statements made here on this forum last Saturday prior to the SLU/CU game. Some correspondents blamed the Golden Knights for being suspended; they wrote without knowing the entire story, and I felt their comments were unnecessarily condemning. As a parent, I would not want my child blamed for something he was not responsible for. We know now there were much more serious issues at hand.

You, TBCH13, definitely have the inside track on this unimaginable event, which occurred during the Saturday practice. It is no wonder the Golden Knights could not play their game as competently as possible. It is really a wonder they could even concentrate on playing at all Saturday knight.

We will just continue letting those wonderful SLU fans believe what they choose and writing what they may. At least we will do this until January 18 at 7 PM when the rematch at Cheel will be played under entirely different circumstances.

Now Clarkson fans need to pull together and provide support for our Golden Knights. I feel that a satisfactory resolution of this problem will make the team even stronger and more competitive. We all know the Golden Knights possess a great deal of talent. So watch out, RPI and Union--here come the Clarkson Golden Knights. And to RPI, the memories of Lake Placid in March and your Big Red Freakout in February remain with us.

OUR KNIGHTS ARE AWESOME!

[JR]

Am I the only one that can't figure out what is going on?

What happened at the pregame skate on Saturday? I can't even imagine anything happening that would affect my ability to focus on the game, especially one as big as a SLUt game.

And if it's the players whining that Morris is too hard on them, I'm not buying it. Do a little research, Morris can be a tough coach, but it's not like it's some sort of secret.

It's almost like someone going to play basketball for Bob Knight and whining that he's hard on his players. What did you expect?

[JustMyOpinion]

That is an excellent comparison. I don't think that the athletes fully understand what they are getting themselves into. They certainly don't deserve to be treated the way they are.

Bobby Knight's coaching techniques are pre-historic. Why doesn't he have a good relationship with any of his former stars? Why can't he win today? The day of the browbeating coaches is over. You can break athetes down, but you have to remember to build them back up again. Build confidence, not suck it out of them.

You have to vary your coaching techniques. Using the browbeating approach can only work for so long.

Trust me, I know.

You can beat a dog into doing what you want it to do, but when it gets chance, it will bite you back.

[JR]

Originally posted by JustMyOpinion
That is an excellent comparison. I don't think that the athletes fully understand what they are getting themselves into. They certainly don't deserve to be treated the way they are.

Bobby Knight's coaching techniques are pre-historic. Why doesn't he have a good relationship with any of his former stars? Why can't he win today? The day of the browbeating coaches is over. You can break athetes down, but you have to remember to build them back up again. Build confidence, not suck it out of them.

You have to vary your coaching techniques. Using the browbeating approach can only work for so long.

Trust me, I know.

You can beat a dog into doing what you want it to do, but when it gets chance, it will bite you back.

I don't buy it.

Unless Mo has changed the way he's coached over the 6 years since I worked for the team, I'm chalking it up to a bunch of whiners.

And while a coach at a pro level that has players for 5, 6, and 7 years at a stretch, I can see the approach getting old. But in college where kids are only in the program for 4 years at most, the message doesn't have time to get old.

I can't believe I'm going to say this because I'm only 28 years old, but the kids these days are spoiled brats. I'm hearing horror stories about how minor hockey players refuse to do drills in practice and only want to scrimmage and play games. And some of the same mentality is leaching it's way into the college game.

Perhaps the time for Coach Morris to move on is here. I just wish that it wasn't because being a "hard" coach has gone out of style.

So who's the easy going coach that won't push the kids that is going to replace Morris? I'll bet whoever it is will be all PC so as not to offend the precious youth of Clarkson.

[JustMyOpinion]

Maybe we don't know coach as well as we think.

I agree that some of today's athletes are part of the "me first" generation.

However, I feel that once you are told about some of the incidents you will change your mind.

[JR]

Maybe we don't know coach as well as we think.

Being in the locker room on game days in 94-95 and 95-96, I have a unique viewpoint.

And while it is possible that Coach Morris has changed big time in the 6 years since I graduated, I doubt it.

However, I feel that once you are told about some of the incidents you will change your mind.

Great, I'll be sitting here waiting until it all comes out in the open. Why is stuff being handled like the plans to invade Iraq? Oh wait, I know more about the US's plans to invade Iraq than what is going down with the Clarkson hockey team.

And somehow, I really doubt that once I am told one side of the story that I'll change my mind. But maybe someday in the not so distant future I'll be given the honor of hearing more of the story than I've gotten so far.

[BroomballMaster]

If you don't know what's going on, why are you siding with morris? Do you know what happened? Are you Morris? Somehow i doubt it.

"So who's the easy going coach that won't push the kids that is going to replace Morris? I'll bet whoever it is will be all PC so as not to offend the precious youth of Clarkson"

-Bobby Knight is really doing good at Indiana these days, i'm not positive but didn't they do pretty good last year with out him?

[tbch13]

ok, JR since you seem to know som much, can I ask why no athletes ever talk about Morris in a nice light? for example the athletic banquet. Also JR I have spoken to many past athletes and it has nothing to do with being a "tough" coach but more that he is extremely hard on the men emotionally. You obviously havent spoken with any players, parents, administration or past assistant coaches, because I have been going to Clarkson games for many years and I have...I always thought they might exxagerate a bit. Anyways, it doesnt matter. It is all in the hands of the ECAC and administration now.

You all want to know what I saw? well here it goes, but I am sure that everyone will have something to say about it.
while watching the pratice, i saw mark Morris hit one of the players in a scrimmage, sitting there horrified my son and i left immediatly. Yes I wasnt on the ice and yes i didnt hear exactly what went on on the ice, but I know what I saw.

[tbch13]

k, bad spelling...i was trying to type fast, but my computer keys dont seem to like me....my apologies for not looking over the post before posting....

:rolleyes:

To bring up my last post, I just want to say that I didnt want to say what I saw. I am disgusted with it but I know that some of the papers have already alluded to it, and it will get out anyways.
Unless I have really terrible eyes and same with my son, then I know what I saw. Maybe there is a reason, maybe Mark Morris is having a breakdown? maybe the player started it? but from what I saw, it didnt look like it.

Let's hope that the players come together to continue the season...we have big games this weekend. I hope to get down to them, depends on how early i can get off work. anyone else going?

[JR]

I love the melodramatic BS.

No athlete ever talks about Morris in a positive light.

OK.

And as far as my contact with players, coaches, and the staff that have been around the program under Morris, ummmmmmmm I worked for the team for my last two years at school. I was in teh locker room before and after every home game and the road games I could get to. I rode on the team bus home after they got knocked out of the 95 NCAAs by Lake State. I've hung out at some of the guys' townhouses. I've hung out downtown with the boys. Given guys rides when I was DDing for my house.

And I also know about some of the coverups that Morris has done to keep certain players from getting publicly ripped for certain unacceptable behaviors.

And as for the incident at practice, we'll see how it all plays out.

[JR]

If you don't know what's going on, why are you siding with morris? Do you know what happened?

1) I didn't know what was going on and was getting annoyed by people having inside conversations on a message board.

2) I am siding with Morris because I've worked with him and have seen BS like this before. For a very long time there have been people whining about the way Morris runs the program. And a lot of it didn't jive with my personal experiences working for the team.

Perhaps I'm loyal to a fault, but Mark Morris did fine by me. And I won't take the side of tearing the man down unless the full story comes out and he was clearly in the wrong.

If it comes out that Morris struck a player and it wasn't justified, then he deserves to get the axe. In today's world coaches can't hit players like was allowed in the past.

But most of the complaints that I've heard in the past have come from fringe players or guys that were let go from the team. Basically, guys that were bitter and had an axe to grind.

Bobby Knight is really doing good at Indiana these days, i'm not positive but didn't they do pretty good last year with out him?

Did you happen to notice the coaching job that Knight did at Texas Tech last year?

http://www.fansonly.com/schools//text/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040102aaa.html

The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame and Chip Hilton Sports announced Texas Tech basketball coach Bob Knight has been named the winner of 2002 Clair Bee Coach of the Year Award. The award was presented on Easter Sunday at the Hall of Fame/NABC Past President's luncheon in Atlanta at the Hilton Hotel by Hall of Famer Pete Newell.

Coach Knight's return to coaching dramatically elevated the Texas Tech program, with the team fashioning a 23-9 record, while drawing large crowds to Red Raider games (home and away)and raising the visibility of the sport in West Texas. According to STATS Inc., the Red Raiders had the largest turnaround of any Division 1 school this season, from a 9-19 team last season to an NCAA Tourney team this year.

[JR]

Why doesn't he have a good relationship with any of his former stars? Why can't he win today?

I just saw him do an interview sitting next to Steve Alford where they were all buddy, buddy.

And I've heard Isiah Thomas say a ton of times that Bob Knight was a great coach and that he'd send his kids to play for Coach Knight.

[BroomballMaster]

I feel bad for your ignorant stance on this situation, you should really find out what happened before backing Morris so adamantly. Everyone knows that Morris got his boys out of many problems, but does that give him the right to manhandle his players? A stern coach can be very effective, but when a coach steps over the line with severe physical reactions that's to far. Morris now has to face the consequences of his actions, just like bobby.

[JR]

Originally posted by BroomballMaster
I feel bad for your ignorant stance on this situation, you should really find out what happened before backing Morris so adamantly. Everyone knows that Morris got his boys out of many problems, but does that give him the right to manhandle his players? A stern coach can be very effective, but when a coach steps over the line with severe physical reactions that's to far. Morris now has to face the consequences of his actions, just like bobby.

Until there is PROOF that Morris has done something wrong, then I will be on his side. And to me an anonymous post on webboard is far from proof.

You may sell people that have done you favors down the river at the first sign of trouble, but that's the way I work.

But if the case is handled through the proper channels and it is proven that Coach Morris has done something wrong, then I won't defend him. But until such PROOF is put out I'm backing Coach Morris because he has never acted the way that is being described either to me or in my presence.

[BroomballMaster]

jr, you're going to be surprised in the next couple days. the broomballmaster knows all.

[JustMyOpinion]

It is sooo perfect that you are comparing him to Bobby.

Let us take a look at the Bobby's profile:

Very High Winning Percentage
Usually does very well within his conference
Uses intimidation to get his point across
Browbeater
As a whole, does not have close relationships with former players
Reportedly, has had numerous physical confrontations with players
Does not have a ton of success outside his conference
Usually loses in the first round of the NCAA's

Hmmm.....

Last year he coached in a weak conference and won a lot of games, but again, lost in the first round of the playoffs to a team that was seeded lower.

You did not look at the fine print during the Alford conference. The previous conference between the two was not friendly. Alford wouldn't even comment about Bobby's coaching techniques. Bobby said he did not give a **** about what Alford thought.

Is it just coincidence that Bobby's last name is Knight?
I smell conspiracy.

[tbch13]

JR...who are you? I know you arent Jim Roque because I dont think we would see him so adamently defend coach Morris...
Can't think of really anyone else but this weekend if I go to the games in Albany then I will ask some of the players or when my son talks to one of them, I will get them to ask of anyone who would defend him to this extent. I am glad that you have your opinions and I think that is great, however in this situation, I disagree with you.

IN THE END...It doesnt really matter anyways...it isnt up to us....and I am sure that wewill hear what is to be done shortly...

[Chaz]

Well I just heard it on the way home while listening to WSNN 99 Hits. There is indeed an official investigation going on at Clarkson concerning Saturday's practice.

[Brett Gobe]

Here is what is on the Daily Jolt, a Clarkson Student run website.

clarkson.dailyjolt.com

Clarkson University is conducting an investigation into an alleged incident that took place at a Golden Knights hockey practice last week. Head Coach Mark Morris went on administrative leave while the University investigates this incident further.

[Loud Guy]

Oh boy. I think I hear the Waaambulance coming.
Listen people. What happens at practice is not our business. If your son plays maybe, but otherwise get out. When you say Coach hit a player, are you saying he whacked them behind the knees with a stick? Took their helmet off and punched them in the face? Or did he just smack them upside the head and say that was really dumb you should think while playing such a complicated sport?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all for Morris. He has a great record at Clarkson which helps keep him. Yes the boys don't love him, but what good coach is lovey dovey with all his players? Some of the most hated and controversial coaches have the best records. Hello? It's a COMPETITIVE sport. If you don't want to win, you're not a good coach. Being nice and playing fair is for gym class. This is serious business.

With that said, I do believe that coaches should be punishable like everyone else. If he's doing something he shouldn't be, he's out tomorrow in my mind. We need to get the whole picture before we make any judgements one way or the other. Post what you know for sure and wait for the rest. You have no holy right to all the information right away just because you're an alum or a die hard fan.

PS- Broomball freak, I think Ritalin may help your issue. Or maybe you're already on a double dosage. It's in the crack family you know, be careful.:D

[scottcomstock]

OK, folks, I'm starting to see a lot of potentially damaging rumors & statements being posted here. As the owner of this board, I refuse to be subjected to possible slander or libel lawsuits, and I'm damned sure none of you want to be, either. So, I'm putting my foot down: IT ENDS HERE AND NOW. This thread is now locked, and I'm going to start doing the same to user accounts if it continues.

So far, all we know for sure is that there's an official investigation under way. Let's not fill this system up with idle supposition, hurtful rumors, or "Mark Morris == Bobby Knight" comparisons. If you do post something, you'd better be able to back it up. Otherwise, it would be wise for you to retract your statement.