Women Sweep UVM to open season

[chuck]

Clarkson won 2 home games against the Cats: 9-0, 4-1.

Congratulations! Excellent goaltending again. This could be the start of something good this year.

[joecct]

Too early to tell. UVM is not what you would call a powerhouse. The Olympians are back and the balance will now shift. Tests will be Dartmouth, Harvard, and SLU.

Do well there and THEN it's time to get excited.

[Ron]

Well, only Harvard and Dartmouth have Olympians returning. So in the ECAC I wouldn't worry about gianormous impact on the game. Just another good player on the ice to worry about. If you're team is returning 5 or 6, then yeah.

[observer]

Well, only Harvard and Dartmouth have Olympians returning. So in the ECAC I wouldn't worry about gianormous impact on the game. Just another good player on the ice to worry about. If you're team is returning 5 or 6, then yeah.

This makes no sense!

Here's what is coming back for those teams (total points two years ago)

Harvard 3 players 44 goals-137 assists 181 points
Dartmouth 3 players 77 goals-78 assists 155 points
Note: Dartmouth numbers don't include freshman Sarah Parsons who would have been there last year!

You think that that wont have a big impact on the league?

The 3 Dartmouth players who were missing, alone, probably produced more goals by themselves 2 years ago than Clarkson scored in almost its entire season last year!

Last year SLU and Princeton finished ahead of Clarkson. Clarkson was in a tie with Harvard and Brown.
You can assume SLU and Princeton will be as good as last year, talent wise. Harvard will be ENORMOUSLY improved with its Olympians back and Dartmouth, which finished behind Clarkson a year ago, will return to its usual Frozen Four-type team. And Brown also will be strong. Don't forget, it was in the ECAC title game.
So, Clarkson will continue to grow. But to say that Harvard and Dartmouth bringing these star players back won't impact the league, that just makes no sense!

Clarkson could show big improvement from last year, and still come in 6th or 7th place!

I guess to give a comparison, imagine if the men's team was stripped of Nick Dodge, David Cayer and Shawn Weller for the whole season. You think they wouldnt be much better next year when they came back?

[observer]

Well, only Harvard and Dartmouth have Olympians returning. So in the ECAC I wouldn't worry about gianormous impact on the game. Just another good player on the ice to worry about. If you're team is returning 5 or 6, then yeah.

One other note: It's not just Harvard and Dartmouth who have key players returning. SLU played the whole season without Chelsea Grills, who was a 40-point scorer each of her first two seasons.

[Ron]

I'm just saying I don't believe it will have a giant impact. Not like it will on some of the other teams in other leagues that are bringing back significantly more players. Anyone can look at the stat sheet and just add those numbers into the mix and say BOOM 155 points right there, but that's too simple of an equation.

Yes, those teams will be better, the question is how much better. How many players did they lose? Can one or two players replace 5-6-7-8 players that have left and dealing with the new freshman in the system. Maybe, maybe not.

It's probably just the Bruins fan in me, or the Penguins fans in others, but star players don't necessarily = victory.

[observer]

I'm just saying I don't believe it will have a giant impact. Not like it will on some of the other teams in other leagues that are bringing back significantly more players. Anyone can look at the stat sheet and just add those numbers into the mix and say BOOM 155 points right there, but that's too simple of an equation.

Yes, those teams will be better, the question is how much better. How many players did they lose? Can one or two players replace 5-6-7-8 players that have left and dealing with the new freshman in the system. Maybe, maybe not.

It's probably just the Bruins fan in me, or the Penguins fans in others, but star players don't necessarily = victory.

How MUCH better?

Let's see. Harvard and Dartmouth make the Frozen Four *EVERY* year when they have their Olympians.
That seems like MUCH better to me, but I'm not in Mensa or anything (laughs).

[Ron]

I don't think either Harvard or Dartmouth have an illusions about being in the Frozen Four because they were there before with Olympians.

Right now they need to worry about the cupcake teams that they were beating on a couple of years ago stepping up to the next level. Teams like Clarkson, BC, RPI, Providence, they're all ready to start cutting in.

No one doubts that those returning players will make a difference, but as the level of player increases around them, it'll be less of a difference.

Looking at the past at teams playing in weaker conference with players that no longer are on the team is not as useful these days.

[observer]

I don't think either Harvard or Dartmouth have an illusions about being in the Frozen Four because they were there before with Olympians.

Right now they need to worry about the cupcake teams that they were beating on a couple of years ago stepping up to the next level. Teams like Clarkson, BC, RPI, Providence, they're all ready to start cutting in.

No one doubts that those returning players will make a difference, but as the level of player increases around them, it'll be less of a difference.

Looking at the past at teams playing in weaker conference with players that no longer are on the team is not as useful these days.

Well, think we have our answer (at least part one) as to whether Harvard and Dartmouth's Olympians matter or not:

Clarkson loses to BOTH teams and Olympians from last year scored half the goals.
Note: I never said, prior to the season, that these teams would blow everyone out, just that having those players back would make them, once again, Frozen Four contenders and that they'd beat a lot of the teams who beat them last year, which weren't missing any of their players.
So far, against what most would argue are the upper echelon teams of the league: SLU, Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton (an NCAA team last year), Clarkson is 0-4-1. The team IS better than last year's team, just the competition has greatly enhanced with the return of these players. By comparision, after its first five games against these teams *last* year, Clarkson was 3-2.

[Ron]

Sure but half the goals were a combined total of TWO goals. Last weekend was all about the goaltenders simple as that. Dartmouth and Harvard's both stood on their head and both stopped EVERYTHING, which is saying a lot because clarkson outshot BOTH teams by decent margins. What's even scarier is both goalies are pretty young. Which will spell a lot of trouble if they're consistent and they come along in the next couple of years.

I will say this, those Olympians are picking apart anyone not even close to their level and they're leading the scoring for both of their respective teams. Parsons at Dartmouth is an incoming FRESHMAN. I don't want to think about that in four years.

What will be more interesting will be how to see how these Olympians compete against each other. Right now they've made a HUGE difference against the Union's and RPI's of the world, not a huge difference against clarkson. Then again as you point out they've got half the goals, and each team only needed one to win, so in the standings it's all the difference in the world!



Well, think we have our answer (at least part one) as to whether Harvard and Dartmouth's Olympians matter or not:

Clarkson loses to BOTH teams and Olympians from last year scored half the goals.
Note: I never said, prior to the season, that these teams would blow everyone out, just that having those players back would make them, once again, Frozen Four contenders and that they'd beat a lot of the teams who beat them last year, which weren't missing any of their players.
So far, against what most would argue are the upper echelon teams of the league: SLU, Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton (an NCAA team last year), Clarkson is 0-4-1. The team IS better than last year's team, just the competition has greatly enhanced with the return of these players. By comparision, after its first five games against these teams *last* year, Clarkson was 3-2.

[observer]

Well, again, I'll point out I never said Dartmouth and Harvard would blow everyone out. Just that with these players back they'd win!
If you go back and look at boxes, Harvard didn't blow out Clarkson 2 years ago either, they just won.
I think some folks who watch men's hockey a lot ,and are new to the women's game, don't realize how drastically different it is (I'm not talking about no checking either).
What I mean is: in women's hockey teams that win are usually 'superstar' oriented. If you go back and look at Frozen Fours, prior to last year, you'll find that no team got there without at least one Olympian on the roster.
If you do further study you'll notice that, unlike men's hockey, top women's teams don't rely on balanced lines. They usually have the one big line where every player has 60-plus points and the rest of the team does nothing. Also you may notice that teams like Harvard and Dartmouth often play games without even using a fourth forward line.
So, that's why I said, before the season, that with these Olympians back that these teams would see a dramatic increase. I agree with your overall principle that in men's hockey superstars alone don't win games. But we are discussing women's hockey, which is an entirely different thing.

ok.. my speech is done!






Sure but half the goals were a combined total of TWO goals. Last weekend was all about the goaltenders simple as that. Dartmouth and Harvard's both stood on their head and both stopped EVERYTHING, which is saying a lot because clarkson outshot BOTH teams by decent margins. What's even scarier is both goalies are pretty young. Which will spell a lot of trouble if they're consistent and they come along in the next couple of years.

I will say this, those Olympians are picking apart anyone not even close to their level and they're leading the scoring for both of their respective teams. Parsons at Dartmouth is an incoming FRESHMAN. I don't want to think about that in four years.

What will be more interesting will be how to see how these Olympians compete against each other. Right now they've made a HUGE difference against the Union's and RPI's of the world, not a huge difference against clarkson. Then again as you point out they've got half the goals, and each team only needed one to win, so in the standings it's all the difference in the world!